Debating where Ohtani's 50-50 Game ranks in MLB history

Alyson Footer, moderator/editor: We’re all still basking in the glow of Shohei Ohtani’s mind-boggling performance in Miami on Thursday that had everyone buzzing. Most headlines contain some form of the phrase “Best game ever?” or “Best game ever!”

So let’s discuss: Ohtani’s game -- which, to review, resulted in him becoming the first player in history to log 50 homers and 50 stolen bases in a single season -- included three homers, five extra-base hits and two stolen bases.

Let’s get this settled: Was Ohtani’s 6-for-6, three-homer, 10-RBI game the single-greatest performance in history?

Mike Petriello, director, stats and research: My answer is not yes, though I will admit the more I look at this, the more I second-guess myself:

Anthony Castrovince, senior national reporter: Well, considering I wrote in my column that it was the best game ever, I am contractually obligated to say it was the best game ever.

But to be clear, I am talking about individual offensive performances, not pitching performances. When you add in pitching, you're getting into a dogs-vs.-cats kind of argument.

Matthew Leach, director, MiLB content and strategy: I'm going to be pedantic here, because that's why we do these things, right? Was it the BEST? No, probably not. But "best," in the sense we'd describe it in baseball, isn't very interesting because we can answer that question without debate. Choose your metric, measure it, OK. And I'm not sure there's any metric where it's the best. OK. So what?

The interesting question, to me, is was it the GREATEST? And then ... maybe? Because then you start to account for context. And the context is what makes it. Going for a feat nobody had ever gone for. Clinching a postseason spot. Adding the stolen bases. Sheer wow factor. Man, it's in the conversation for greatest.

David Adler, stats and data researcher: Even if you want to compare it to pitching games though, it has to still be one of the best games ever because of the history at stake, right? Like it would be if Clayton Kershaw threw a perfect game to clinch the Triple Crown.

Leach: I love your raising Kershaw here, David, because -- and this isn't fair, but it's still true -- who did it matters. Part of why it's great is that a staggeringly great player did it. With all eyes on him.

And let's not lose sight of how many guys have stalled out on 299 or 49 or 399 home runs. It's always hard to hit a homer. It's extra hard when you're conscious of your next homer being historic.

Castrovince: Right. The context matters. The counter, of course, would be the context that the 2024 Miami Marlins haven’t won a lot of games. But I haven't seen anyone else go 6-for-6 with three homers, two doubles and two steals against the 2024 Marlins on the day they reached 50-50.

Adler: Luckily, when we think back on this game in 20 years, I don't think anyone will remember the part about the Marlins not being a good team. All anyone will think about is that Ohtani went 50-50 with a 6-for-6, three-homer, 10-RBI game, with two steals.

Petriello: Let's split some hairs on best days and best games. It's not the best game ever, because ... give me Tony Cloninger hitting two grand slams and driving in nine, while also pitching a complete game in 1966. Give me Don Larsen pitching a perfect game in the World Series. There have been 18 four-homer games in history and this isn't one of them -- and I'd rather have the fourth homer than the two stolen bases. But what made this special is what it meant. If Ohtani did this while hitting homers 32-34, we'd talk about how cool a game it was, but we wouldn't make it a historically notable game. It mattered because it happened while getting to 50-50. That's a pretty great day.

Leach: Going 6-for-6 with three homers, two steals and 10 RBIs would be historically notable. I probably helped lead the charge against measuring players by RBIs, and I'm fine with that. But 10 RBIs?!?!

Petriello: Ten RBIs is cool. It's happened 16 times, though. Do I get to mention Norm Zauchin here? I do!

Castrovince: This is a philosophical discussion at this point, but achieving the two steals with the three homers is, in my opinion, more difficult than hitting the fourth homer. Because it's a completely different skillset.

Petriello: More difficult, yes! More valuable? Nah. Especially with one of those three homers off a slow-pitch softball.

Leach: This is why I already conceded best. It doesn't win out on WAR or WPA or total bases or any objective measure. But we don't have roundtables to do simple arithmetic.

Castrovince: There had only been 20 previous games in which a player hit three homers and stole a base. None of them had multiple steals. And no one ever stole a single base in a four-homer game.

Petriello: To me, it's one of the all-time great days. It's up there with ... I don't know. Nomar Garciaparra hitting three homers on his birthday in 2002? That time Ben Gamel hit a homer and then went right to the hospital for his daughter being born? The day Nate Colbert hit FIVE homers? Given the context, it might be the all-time best day.

Castrovince: Ohtani came so close to making all this moot: His first double went off the wall in right-center field. He tried to stretch his second double into a triple, but was thrown out at third on a bang-bang play. It’s insane how close he came to a four-homer cycle. Then we wouldn't have to debate this. It would be obvious.

Adler: I was actually hoping I would be able to come here and say, "This isn't even Ohtani's best game ever." I wanted to have a two-way game where I could say, "This is one of the best hitting games ever ... but remember when Ohtani hit three homers and pitched a 10-strikeout shutout?" But I don't think even Ohtani has a two-way game better than this one. Maybe someday ...

Petriello: I mean, arguing against him does feel like pushing back on the ocean. But also, recency bias is strong. I will be a Cloninger truther forever, darn it.

Leach: I think where I come down is, it's a game you'll be able to talk about in three or four words and everybody will know what you mean. He'll go alongside Kerry Wood and Mark Whiten and Fernando Tatis. It's one of Those Games.

Petriello: I think that might be right, Matthew, but those games all stood alone. Would this be if it wasn't The 50-50 Game, too? You need that extra context.

Leach: It is, though!

And also, Mike, I think it might. I think that's the one place where I disagree with you, rather than just seeing it differently. I think if he'd done this in May, 6-for-6, 10 RBIs with three homers and two steals would still be getting an awfully similar Discourse today.

Adler: This is the Ohtani Game until he does something cooler.

Castrovince: It's just so funny to me. This man is a pitcher rehabbing from Tommy John surgery right now. In the meantime, he had 17 total bases in a single game while achieving 51-51. Why are we even discussing mere mortals like Mark Whiten (with all due respect to Mr. Whiten)?

Adler: If he didn't go 50-50, there would be an argument. You could say the most iconic Ohtani game was when he first hit and pitched at the same time, threw 100 mph and hit the bomb off Dylan Cease ... or you could say it was striking out Mike Trout in the World Baseball Classic final. But I think with the 50-50 club, this is it.

Footer: Some might view this as apples and oranges (or dogs and cats apparently), but it’s worth examining if this was a better game than some of the pitching performances that are widely viewed as among the best ever. There was the Kerry Wood 20-strikeout game vs. Houston in 1998, Max Scherzer’s no-hitter in 2015 that featured 17 strikeouts and Sandy Koufax’s perfect game that included 14 strikeouts in 1965.

How do we quantify Ohtani’s hitting performance with any of these? Can we?

Castrovince: Rick Wise threw a no-hitter and hit two ding dongs. Don't forget that.

Petriello: Wood might stand alone, but a game like the others comes along once every 18 months or so. This is different, better.

Castrovince: Armando Galarraga threw the only 28-out perfect game. (I was there!)

Leach: Let's not leave out Pedro Martinez's six no-hit innings in a playoff game against the most prolific offense of the last 90 years.

Adler: This has to be basically the equivalent of one of those iconic pitching games, right? It's as perfect of a hitting game as you can get.

Leach: To me, going back to greatest vs best, it absolutely stands alongside something like Wood.

Petriello: What makes Ohtani great in a way that those pitchers were not is his ability to be great at multiple things at once. Sometimes, those two things are "pitching" and "hitting."

Right now, it's "power" and "speed." Those great pitching games are great. but they're also only pitching games.

Adler: It's crazy that you can now call Ohtani a baseball unicorn for two totally different and equally appropriate reasons.

Leach: Another game it reminds me of is one I was fortunate enough to cover, when Roger Clemens got to 300 wins and 4,000 K's on the same night. Hitting round numbers in a mental game is HARD.

Adler: The fact that Ohtani came into this season without the thing that made him a unique player in baseball history -- hitting and pitching -- and immediately made himself a unique player in a different way is maybe my favorite part about this story.

Castrovince: Exactly, David. As Mike said, Ohtani has an argument for "best all-around game" from his two-way days (which we all hope will be back soon). So, at some point, I just throw my hands up and say that, with all due respect to those who have come before, there has never been anybody like this man, and it's probably not worth arguing whether he had the best game ever. Because one way or another, he probably did. And if he didn't, he eventually will.

Leach: And, again, I really think that matters. That's one of the aspects arguing for it as one of the greatest if not the greatest. And I'm totally OK with that.

Adler: I love round numbers. And there is no better way I can imagine to get to those round numbers than this game.